DEX: Debian and its derivatives, getting things done together
Since I resumed active status in Debian, I’ve been thinking about how to bridge the gap between Debian and its derivatives*. I’ve spoken at length with Zack, the attendees of the Derivatives BoF at DebConf 10, and the fine folks at the Derivatives Front Desk about the technical and social issues affecting derivative projects, and could probably write a very thorough series of blog posts on the subject.
Instead, Zack and I decided to try doing something about it: we have begun a project to test out a new approach to the problem.
Introducing DEX
DEX is all about action: merging patches, fixing bugs, crunching data, whatever is necessary to get changes from derivatives into Debian proper. DEX doesn’t try to change the way any existing project works, but adds a “fast path” for getting code from one place to another.
DEX is a joint task force where developers from Debian and its derivatives work together on this common goal. As a pilot project, we’ve established an Ubuntu DEX Team focused on merging code from Ubuntu into Debian. With members from both projects, we hope to be able to resolve blockage anywhere in the pipeline. Whatever needs to get done in order to merge an Ubuntu patch, someone in the Ubuntu DEX team will know what to do. If we get good results with Ubuntu, we hope that other derivatives will follow. With thanks to David Paleino, we’re excited that the Utnubu project is merging into DEX as it aligns well with their goals. I’m very grateful to have Colin Watson and James Westby signed up to contribute as well.
Our first project is simple: turn this list green. This is an archive of quite old patches from Ubuntu, most of which have probably been merged already or made obsolete, but they pre-date any kind of tracking system so they need to be verified. Once that’s done, we’ll move on to a new project with a new todo list.
If you want to see Debian benefit from technical work done in derivatives, DEX is a chance for you to act together to make it happen. If you work on a derivative and want to carry a smaller delta, come and join us. I’m sure we’ll learn a lot from this experience.
* There are many instances of great cooperation between Debian and derivative distributions, including joint package maintenance teams, and some derivatives are even part of the Debian project. Nonetheless, there are areas were most people I’ve spoken to agree that we need to do better. This is what I’ve referred to as the “gap”.
We'll see | Matt Zimmerman 
(edit: unapproved long uninformed rant about Mono from the comments. please find a more appropriate place for that conversation, which has nothing to do with DEX)
Matt Zimmerman
March 17, 2011 at 09:06
[…] get changes from derivatives into Debian proper,” Ubuntu CTO Matt Zimmerman wrote in a blog post. “DEX is a joint task force where developers from Debian and its derivatives work together on […]
Ubuntu Linux aims to give back with Debian Dex | Linux Debian
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[…] и Стефано Заккироли (Stefano Zacchiroli), лидер проекта Debian, представили новый проект сообщества Debian – DEX, созданный для […]
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March 18, 2011 at 10:05
Great start!!
koolhead17
March 18, 2011 at 10:38
This initiative is genius. Keep it up and thank you for your hard work.
Chauncellor
March 18, 2011 at 12:39
[…] It should be easier in future for patches to Debian-based Linux distributions to find their way back to the source, the Debian Project. This is the intention behind the establishment of Debian’s Derivatives Exchange Project (DEX), as described by Ubuntu’s technical director, Matt Zimmerman, in his blog. […]
Platform created for exchange between Debian and Ubuntu | Linux Debian
March 18, 2011 at 14:56
Will this also help in getting patches from $DEBIANDERIVATIVE to the upstream projects? Kernel, LibreOffice, $WHATEVER? Or is this just meant to simplify the inter-debian workflow?
IMHO (full disclosure – I am a Red Hat guy) distributing and coordinating patches should always include the upstream projects.
jan
Jan Wildeboer
March 18, 2011 at 15:13
One thing that I noticed is that a large number of the patches seem to be back porting fixes.
So, while at first I agreed with you, now, I’m not so sure :)
Micheas
March 18, 2011 at 18:30
This particular batch of patches included some packaging transitions (C++ ABI, python2.4), architecture porting fixes (e.g. amd64), some installer improvements, security enhanncements (running things as non-root), and a bunch of general bug fixes. Most of them had already been merged into Debian, but we’ve found a few already which are filed in the BTS but haven’t been merged in yet. We’ll work to get them all cleared out.
Matt Zimmerman
March 18, 2011 at 18:44
The focus is on getting Debian and its derivatives in sync, and indeed a lot of the patches are actually to the package metadata rather than upstream code.
Where a patch should go upstream, yes, we will generally submit it. However, the idea of DEX is that by having Ubuntu developers and Debian developers in the team, we can actually get the patches in ourselves. So our goals will be set accordingly. With upstream projects, we’ll be relying on upstream maintainers to do that (on their own schedule), and will try to avoid blocking waiting for that to happen.
Matt Zimmerman
March 23, 2011 at 10:43
[…] […]
Anonymous
March 18, 2011 at 16:06
Excellent idea, and much-needed.
Adam Gonnerman
March 18, 2011 at 16:40
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Debian und Ubuntu gründen Austauschplattform « medijan
March 18, 2011 at 23:49
This is utterly fantastic. Only one thing: Derivatives EXchange? If you’re going to evoke the financial fiasco we’re still living through, why not go all the way? I’m thinking “CDO”: collateralized debian obligation. :-)
marrusl
March 19, 2011 at 01:14
I like the idea and hope it succeeds. I do have concerns though. There are situations where a derivative distro’s approach has been more about a quick-n-dirty hack to get things done. Such a patch could bring disagreement.
Are there guidelines? Like try to work with the Debian Package Maintainer? What in cases where it still can’t be resolved?
One I can recollect right now is a patch for dput, to support uploads via ssh. That patch pulled in a bzr dependency, which the DD wasn’t interested in.
Ritesh Raj Sarraf
March 19, 2011 at 15:54
Yes, there are sometimes differences of opinion as to the most appropriate solution to a problem, due to different goals and priorities between the projects. Our hope with DEX is that by involving both Debian maintainers and derivative maintainers in the team, we can resolve those differences expediently, and develop best practices for future work.
I think that both groups will need to work to accommodate each other’s needs.
If a patch is not especially useful in Debian, but does no appreciable harm and solves a problem for the derivative, is it really worth maintaining a delta? The dput patch, which adds a “Suggests” on dput, seems like a good example of one which would be harmless to merge, but maybe there’s more to the story that I’m not aware of.
In other situations, it might be more appropriate to rework a patch to be more general. Helping people in both projects learn how and when to do the right thing will be an important part of DEX.
Matt Zimmerman
March 21, 2011 at 09:43
[…] Zimmerman blogs about DEX, a joint task force between Debian and its derivatives that aims to get changes that belong in […]
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